Apparently we'll never grow out of twank.

This takes “change the names and it’s totally publishable” to a whole new level.


In trying to emulate the original Twankhard, we created a misnomer. This isn’t Twankharder, it’s TealDeerHarder or TryAndUnderstandHarder.

Well, read if you dare.

There are always some who accept whatever they’re told without checking, and always some that don’t accept it even when the evidence is right there.

Originally we planned on doing a nice table comparing text, a la the Cassie Clare writeup. We started at the beginning of chapter 1:

The Velveteen Mother by Krismom Whatever Makes You Happy by William Sutcliffe
Edward stared at his mother, aghast. He couldn’t think of a single thing that might have prompted her to turn up, here, at his apartment, on a weekday evening, uninvited without a warning. There was no precedent to this behavior, and he immediately assumed something must be wrong, something too awful to discuss over the phone- at the very least, someone must have died.

“What’s wrong?” he said.

“Nothing’s wrong.”

“Is everyone OK?” He’d spoken to his brother Emmett a few days ago and he’d mentioned having had dinner with his other brother Jasper- so it wasn’t any of them.

“Everyone’s fine,” she said. They stared at one another across the threshold, both at a loss as to what to do next, like hikers suddenly realizing they are lost.

“Aren’t you going to invite

Matt stared at his mother, aghast. He couldn’t think of a single thing that might have prompted her to turn up, here, at his flat, on a weekday evening, uninvited, without even giving him a warning. There was no precedent for this behavior, and he immediately assumed that something terrible must have happened, something too awful to discuss over the phone — an event to be spoken of in hushed voices, with a chair at the ready and hot, sweet tea to hand. At the very least, someone must have died.

“What’s wrong?” he said.

“Nothing’s wrong.”

“Is everyone OK?”

“Everyone’s fine,” she said. They stared at one another across the threshold, both at a loss as to what to do next, like hikers suddenly realizing they are lost.

“Aren’t you going to invite

…Do we see the problem?

You can pretty much pick any line from The Velveteen Mother‘s first chapter, and plug it in to Google Booksearch (it searches better if you take out the names) and bring up the exact same words from William Sutcliffe’s Whatever Makes You Happy.

Follow the yellow brick road to chapter 5, and you get this:

The Velveteen Mother by Krismom Whatever Makes You Happy by William Sutcliffe
Emmett put on a smile and tried to give himself a mental enema as he walked down the stairs, past the bodybuilder/undertaker bouncer at the door. He’d never quite mastered the etiquette of bouncer eye contact, his size usually creating an air of competitive animosity among other guys who were larger than the average male.
“Take it easy, Chief, it’s cool.” Emmett walked by and searched the bar for his brother. Emmett never understood how going to a loud bar where you have to yell at point blank range is supposed to be social.
He handed over his coat to a beautiful coat-check girl and stepped in. Emmett felt very out of his comfort zone. Perhaps this was why they employed women like her at the door: to give you the feeling that you were not just entering a bar, but being allowed access to a better world. The bar was lit with a curious blue glow, not by any discernable bulbs, but by cubes of wall that emanated a colored radiance which vaguely approximated to light while somehow not giving enough information to let you know where the floor was.
Daniel put on a smile and tried to give himself a mental enema as he walked down the stairs, past the bodybuilder/ undertaker tableau of bouncers at the door. He’d never quite mastered the etiquette of bouncer eye contact, and his intentions of a casual breeze-past always evaporated at the last minute, replaced by a shy smile and an ingratiating, coquettish simper. Daniel handed over his coat to an aggravatingly beautiful coat-check girl and stepped in.
Perhaps this was why they employed women like her at the door: to give you the feeling that you were not just entering a bar, but being allowed access to a better world. The bar was lit with a curious blue glow, not by any discernible bulbs, but by cubes of wall that emanated a colored radiance which vaguely approximated to light while somehow not giving enough information to let you know where the floor was.

And in chapter 6:

The Velveteen Mother by Krismom Whatever Makes You Happy by William Sutcliffe
That’s the deal. They didn’t want a father. All they needed was sperm. They’re good friends of mine and I trust them, so I gave them some sperm. It’s no big deal. I did a favor for some friends.” “That’s the deal. They didn’t want a father. They already had the father. All they needed was some sperm. And they’re good friends of mine and I like them and trust them, so I had a fresh AIDS test and gave them some sperm. It’s no big deal.”

And by “scroll down,” we don’t mean that everything in between is original, just that we went through picking completely random lines from whichever chapter our mice scrollers stopped on, ran them through the scanner…and they were plagiarized. At that point, why go further? It’s obvious that there’s a big problem here.

There have also been allegations that Committed to Memory, the fic Krismom began after TVM, contained the same type of copypasta from two or more published works, but we do not yet have a copy of this to verify.

And so we’re faced with several issues:

1. Copying that much text, even for the purposes of proving that someone plagiarized, would cross the line into infringement very quickly. We’d end up posting Sutcliffe’s whole book by the time it was over. Even having a copy of TVM is…like having an illegal copy of WMYH.
2. Yeah. Right. Like we have that kind of time. Just doing this much copypasta was fucking tedious.
3. It wouldn’t matter anyway. If it isn’t clear by now that TVM was essentially WMYH with the names changed and some random lines cut/added/moved, no amount of Windex is going to take the rose off those glasses.

So here’s the thing. If you have either fic or can get them, verify this independently. Copy any line from the fic you like (again, removing the names means it’ll hit better) and paste it into Google Books. Scroll down and do it again.

And again.


Do the whole damn book fic if you want.

You won’t be taking our word for it; the above table could have been pulled out of our collective asses. But the hits on Google Books? Sorry, if any of us had the tech power to fake that, we wouldn’t be wasting it on the Twilight fandom.

So why is this upsetting? It’s not like she made money or gained anything tangible from it, right? As far as it’s possible for us to tell, Krismom has never participated in fandom charity events, and TVM doesn’t seem to have won any of the awards that it was nominated for. (Please feel free to let us know if we’re wrong, about this or anything else. It took over a year for someone to realize TVM was copied practically verbatim from a book; forgive us if we missed something between now and two days ago).

It might even twist itself into a good thing for the author. One of us only ever read Pamela Dean’s books after they played such a huge role in the Cassie Claire scandal; the same could end up true for William Sutcliffe. Except…the sheer magnitude of the plagiarism means that anyone who has a downloaded copy of TVM basically has a free ebook of WMYH. So that changes things. Luckily that’s not our mess to sort out.

What does it mean for fandom? The pulling to publish craze has made people reluctant to read incomplete fics or praise any fic too much lest the author decide his/her work of art deserves a wider audience. That’s not fair to those left behind. This? People are feeling duped right now. Readers often have an emotional investment in a story (witness the rage when one gets pulled), and when something like this happens, it stings.

Our prediction is that it’s going to take its toll on reviews and fandom participation, and those authors who actually take pride in their own work are the ones who will suffer for it. And why shouldn’t it happen that way? This took how long to discover? And only because the book is searchable on Google. Plenty of books aren’t, or at least you’d have to know the exact passages (most fics aren’t basically a book with the names changed). This could be going on all over the place. We wouldn’t want to heap praise on something and find out it was copied.

It’s not a huge crisis; it’s not on the level of predicting how the situation in Egypt is going to affect international relations and the economy. But that’s the point. Fic is supposed to be fun. This is not fun; it’s maddening and kind of boring.

People gush over fics because they’re pimped out by betas and BNA’s, and less known writers feel bad about their work because it doesn’t garner the accolades of these “better” fics. Depending on the forum, even gentle criticism of the latest fic du jour brings on an army of white knights ready to run the naysayers out on a rail.

…So how’d that work out for us this time?

(As an aside to go along with the BNA/nobody issue, while we might “come out” in the future, part of the reason for remaining anonymous for now is so you readers can form opinions based on content and not whether you know us, like us, or know/like us less or more than the people involved. If we wanted to be judged like that, we could have just commented on ADF. And been threatened with comment deletion because a mod is friends with Krismom).

Our opinion, if you care, is that we all (even we, the bloggers, are guilty of this) need to stop giving all the power to big names, who are no less likely to make poor judgment calls than the next person. Stop letting everyone else tell you what to read, how to write, and what to think. And for god’s sake if someone rings your alarm bells, listen to yourself. Don’t doubt that feeling just because everyone else is saying “That author is so NICE…” That’s all we ask.

Do this in real life, too, particularly during elections. Question everything. Take as a standing recommendation.

…But not just because we told you to.

46 responses to “This takes “change the names and it’s totally publishable” to a whole new level.

  1. Is that cheese? February 12, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    I don’t know Krismom; never read her stories; never had any contact with her and she wasn’t on my radar. Still, the plagiarism is appalling and a small, petty part of me is so grateful that I’m not one of her ff friends because I would hate to be in the position of trying to understand how such a “nice, good person” could engage in such unsavory shenanigans. I feel worse for her online friends than for her. I know nice people do wrong things all the time, but often the people who suffer the most are the unintended victims.

  2. Anonymous February 12, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Ugh. I read the twilighted thread and thought it was just a few paragraphs. This is terrible. My first reaction was how could anyone think they could get away with that, but then I thought they really did just that. For a long time.

    OMG that campfire and grownasswoman claiming that no one gave krismom a “free pass” when HER knee-jerk reaction was “Is there PROOF? Who cares anyway, it’s all just fanfic!!!!!”

    Well the site owners make the rules, and if they want to act like they suddenly care about witch hunts because now it’s on their friend’s side there’s nothing we can do. which is why we need *your* site.

    • Anonymouse February 13, 2011 at 3:09 pm

      The rangers at ADF have said, time and time again, that they will not delete comments unless they are heinously offensive to other campers. Even people that have stepped over the line have been warned, and the comment and warning have stayed up. Yet suddenly comments are liable to deletion because one ranger doesn’t like the topic being discussed? And her reasoning was shaky at best, since there have been topics gone over and over for months (e.g. Omnific, pulling to publish), but the rangers are happy to let the campers beat that dead horse until there’s no flesh left on the corpse.

      And the thing is, it isn’t “just fanfic”, not by dragging a published author into it. Krismom has exposed herself to potential legal action for the publishers of the novels that were plagiarized. It’s very clear in FFnet’s terms that plagiarism of published material won’t be tolerated, and that’s to cover their own asses legally. If they’d discovered this, it wouldn’t just be the stories being deleted, her whole account would be gone, just like happened to Cassie Clare (*spits*).

      That’s why I’m so pissed off at the hypocrisy over this whole thing, with people acting like it’s more important how their ‘friend’ might be feeling, not about what she did. A) Your friendship was built on deception, so how can you trust her after this? I wouldn’t still be calling her a friend. B) She’s earned whatever she may be feeling. It’s not a slip-up. She’s been doing this deliberately for months. People were saying they wanted to be able to find out her reasons for doing it – sorry, they aren’t “reasons”, they are “excuses”. She chose to do something which she knew was wrong, over and over again.

      Tl;dr – This fandom is full of hypocrites and I think I’m better off out of it.

      • Is that cheese? February 13, 2011 at 8:46 pm

        That ranger, grownasswoman, is probably still in a bad mood because not everyone loved the daily Bobby Long posts. ADF is kind of creepy if you don’t toe the line.

        • Me February 14, 2011 at 1:30 am

          I thought I was the only one who noticed that on ADF. Since when do comments get deleted just because one of the rangers is bored with the topic or doesn’t like? What I really couldn’t understand was that the previous campfire which discussed this topic was reasonably civilised and friendly. It’s turning into one of those freaky dictatorial sites which is a shame because it use to be a fun place. Now they even have rules on which campfires you can post on which days. God forbid you’re in need of assistance looking for a fic on the wrong day or you dare to disagree with a ranger. It’s a shame it use to be a great, chilled site. Free of the usual craziness of a lot of fandom sites.

          Wow what an off topic ramble. Back on topic I completely agree about the well known authors. I remember the days when I didn’t know who any authors were. I didn’t look on their twitter or belong to any fandom communities so these people to me were nameless and faceless and to be honest I preferred fic back then. Stories were unpolluted by the goings on of the author and therefore that much more enjoyable. I didn’t know who I was suppose to like or suppose to hate so the author was judged purely on the quality of their writing (or someone elses if I had read this story, lol).
          I’m ashamed to say that most of the stories I read are rec’d either directly or indirectly by BNAs or those that have influence. I can’t remember the last time I searched FF for a good fic I just rely on recs.
          I think the power and popularity that BNAs have is a huge lure to some people so you’ll get a very ‘nice’ lady plagiarising word for word chunks of another authors work in the hope that they’ll be included into the cool club. The crazy lengths we’ll go to to be included into the it crowd.
          Remember when 1,000 reviews was the holy grail? The fandom seemed to be a lot simpler back then, lol. On that note I’m off to search for an as yet undiscovered gem by a completely unknown author : )

          • Alby Mangroves February 14, 2011 at 2:20 am

            I’ve never really felt welcome on ADF, but then, I’m not one of the big guys. It feels quite cliquey in there, though to be honest, I haven’t spent much time understanding how it’s all supposed to work with the rangers, cabins, etc. IDEK.

            • Is that cheese? February 14, 2011 at 2:48 am

              ADF is definitely cliquey and requires a huge amount of ranger ass-kissing for acceptance. People there seem to spend a lot of time congratulating themselves on how civil they are, but I sense a lot of rage simmering under the surface. And for a site that claims the content is user-generated, they have an incredible amount of rules about what and when you can post. I don’t read stories there as I prefer the basic format; and I never go to any page other than the main one. I have no idea how much action those author cabins get.

              • Me February 14, 2011 at 3:22 am

                @is that cheese perfect description of adf.

              • ADF rant, sorry February 14, 2011 at 3:28 am

                Their website is confusing and slow. Plus, considering the troll-like antics of some of the rangers on the very site they’re responsible for, I can’t see why they’re so strict on rules. They can’t (won’t) even follow them themselves if a ripe opportunity presents itself.

                I do find there are some genuine rangers over there, though. Jandco, wtvoc, and Capricorn come to mind, but the overall reputation of the community has been ruined by the “other” side.

                And mind you, I am a big fan of Jandco myself, but seeing all the constant asskissery (campfires made pretty specifically to compliment her and/or wtvoc and/or jfly) got old real quick.

                Of course all above criticism is met with the perfunctory “this site is what you make it!” which I find to get tiring, especially when the rangers continually destroy whatever little progress the members might make re-re-building ADFs less than savory reputation.

                Yes, it’s what we make it, but perhaps a little leading by example wouldn’t hurt anything.

                • My adf rant February 14, 2011 at 3:58 am

                  I joined the site because jandco removed her stories from ff and put them on adf (I like jandco but that was just a crappy move in my opinion, not all her readers want to be involved in a site like that).
                  The whole site just seems to me like a lot of arse kissing.If you criticise it in anyway or speak out of line – God forbid. The love campfires make me nauseous because they usually come immediately after someone has tried to confront an issue with the site or rangers (this site is what you make it). Those people are then made to feel like trouble makers who’ve upset the equilibrium of the site and a whole load of I love you ranger x y or z then ensues.
                  I always felt quite resentful that I was forced to join to continue reading an authors work but it’s her stories so fair enough she can do what she likes with them. At least when I originally joined there was still an element of fun, now there are more rules than a strict catholic girls school. And I get the feeling a lot of the people involved have honestly started to believe their own hype

                  • ADF rant, sorry February 14, 2011 at 4:09 am

                    I stopped going there when they hyped up the SUPER DUPER IMPORTANT BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND ANNOUNCEMENT. Some lady said something to effect of… her baby was hungry, but she was waiting for the announcement to be made to go to the store to get formula (not exact, but close).

                    Then it ended up just being a new fic (High Noon) by Jandco/Jfly (which was underwhelming enough without the “announcement”). They wouldn’t do that for a random member’s new fic though. They would tell you, “This site is what you make it!” and that’s what you get for not having any friends whatsoever to make the hyped-up self-love post for you (or for not owning your own website where you can do it yourself).

                    • Ralph S. mouse February 14, 2011 at 6:35 pm

                      OH THAT.

                      That was disturbing on so many levels. I remember that, and then I remember it got posted in a comment on The Gazebo and a friend of the mods said “You’re blaming the rangers that she’s a bad parent?” But I’ve seen authors get blamed for the antics of their fangirls before; when Icy’s zombies went after that poor girl who translated MOTU and said Russia was “a shithole we should have nuked” and that she deserved to die (not all comments were that bad, thank god, but still), a lot of the blame went on Icy herself for letting it happen. So why is it different for ADF rangers?

                      If she honestly didn’t go buy food for her baby because of the announcement, that’s not the rangers fault. BUT you’d think ADF would be embarrassed that they hyped something SO MUCH that everyone thought it was really worth staying home for and then it was only a new fic. You’d think they’d be embarrassed that they had cultivated an atmosphere where that kind of mindless devotion could even happen. Even people who didn’t change their plans at all said that whole thing was a train wreck.

                      You could say that about anything that happens to anyone, really. If someone quits school/work because they’re being bullied, you could say they didn’t HAVE to do that, and other people get bullied and don’t go that far, and the bullier isn’t responsible that their victim wasn’t stronger. But it doesn’t mean the kids or adults who did the bullying have absolutely NO blame in it either.

                  • Anonymous February 14, 2011 at 5:11 am

                    The love campfires make me nauseous because they usually come immediately after someone has tried to confront an issue with the site or rangers (this site is what you make it).

                    I tune out the love campfires because they’re almost *always* started because the OP is butthurt about something. Anything, not just ADF. This was a long time ago and if I had it bookmarked, it’s gone now, but I remember Hmonster was always doing them and it started to get on my nerves because she was always calling herself “Pollyanna” and her Twitter profile said she was “a do gooder and proud of it” or something, but all she was doing was complaining. Then someone posted on Twilighted how she had fucked up the Bellies? I forget, something about the categories not being checked and they ignored messages about it. Then the poster specifically menitoned the love posts and said it was convenient how they all came right after that,. and it was an aha moment for me because I’d always thought there was something weird about them but you know you can’t question someone who’s spreading all the love!

                    I jus t got so frustrated with the process. It was a vicious cycle. Someone would cause something negative, people would talk about it, and the person who caused it or one of their friends woudl tell everyone how negative we all are and want us to sing kumbiya and forget all about the problem itself. So the ones being blamed are always the ones who tried to call out the instigators.

                    • Is that cheese? February 14, 2011 at 1:13 pm

                      The love campfires are particularly nauseating and I don’t think they encourage a sense of community. In fact, they seem to promote exclusion. If you don’t know anyone on ADF you can feel quite left out. Any time there is the slightest bit of tension — someone expresses an unpopular opinion or unintentionally offends — you can bet there will be a love post soon after. Recently, when a member who wasn’t rude at all felt she had to post a separate apology post because a delicate ranger was offended… and now that ranger is posting a “let’s show how passive-aggressive we can be” post…

                      I understand that ADF belongs to the rangers, but having different rules for the rangers and non-rangers is annoying.

                    • My adf rant February 14, 2011 at 5:01 pm

                      Note at the bottom of the latest campfire posted:
                      “I’m hoping that this CF is A-OK, as my last one was deleted”
                      Says it all really ; )

                    • Ralph S. mouse February 14, 2011 at 6:22 pm

                      Wait…I’m not following. I know there was a glitch with the Bellies where an AH or AU story was posted as either a finalist or winner in a CANON category, and I remember wtvoc got really pissed off when people pointed that out (how dare they), but I don’t think HMonster4 was involved. Are you thinking of the Indies? I see on the Indies thread that there’s a question on some stories having too many reviews, but then they said they were sending a PM and that’s it.
                      I thought I remembered someone complaining that an Indies author had cheated and the admins did nothing about it, but I don’t know where it was posted.
                      ITA about HMonster4 regardless though. Mostly all I ever saw here do was complain or pimp her projects. Even if someone really is that nice I don’t want to hear about it every fucking day.

                    • My adf rant February 14, 2011 at 6:33 pm

                      “Recently, when a member who wasn’t rude at all felt she had to post a separate apology post because a delicate ranger was offended… and now that ranger is posting a “let’s show how passive-aggressive we can be” post…”
                      Lol yep I was watching that sequence of events but your forgetting the ‘Love’ campfire that the ohh so delicate ranger posted after the sorry campfire. She made very clear what the rules of the campfire were just to kick it to the poor little camper (who had already apologised) one more time. Apparently that wasn’t enough because the love was replaced by the passive aggressive campfire which I believe brings us up to date. Lol you couldn’t make it up.

                  • Is that cheese? February 14, 2011 at 6:47 pm

                    “Apparently that wasn’t enough because the love was replaced by the passive aggressive campfire which I believe brings us up to date. Lol you couldn’t make it up.”

                    Now hold on, hoss, because I see that there’s yet another “love” post today. How many love posts does that place need?

                    • My adf rant February 14, 2011 at 9:47 pm

                      “How many love posts does that place need?” It needs as many love posts as is necessary until we tow the line and understand the rules. Now stop questioning and start worshipping and realise that it’s all because they love you. What do you think that place is a user generated site? ; )
                      PS: If you want a perfect summary of what ADF has become look no further than Aaron Sorkin and the wonderful West Wing. It’s uncanny : )

                    • twankharder February 15, 2011 at 1:24 am

                      “You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to obey him: you must love him.”
                      Room 101 for you.

        • PullmyFinger March 8, 2011 at 7:01 am

          Emibella? once told me I should bow down to her (in so many words) because of all she does for the site and that she is a “SENIOR RANGER” not just a ranger, but a “senior ranger” and its her free time, blah, blah, blah. Like, the place wouldn’t go on without her? Most of the rangers are total cunts. They made the place to be clique free, but making all their friends rangers is the perfect example of a clique! GrownAssWoman was on the board 24/7 making loud ass post so what do they do? MAKE HER A RANGER!
          Now we just have to hear about how drunk she is and Bobby Long all day. Honestly the people who flock to that site and praise it (that aren’t rangers) are as bad as Icy’s readers. Some people just dont’ have a mind of their own. If they did that site would have never lasted. The rules are ridic…I can’t ask about a fic (the purpose of the site) that I can’t remember on Thursday, but we can hear about Tor’s fucking obession with Justin Beiber all day. Really fucking stupid if you ask me.

  3. solareclipses February 12, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    My opinion’s unpopular, and no one is likely to give a shit, but here goes: I think this happens because the majority of twific has become so far removed from the source material. Those of us who solely or mostly read canon and AU stories don’t experience this kind of drama to any significant degree. Oh, we’ve our fair share of “dead,” incomplete fics, but people plagiarizing or pulling fics left and right to publish? Not really. For obvious reasons. In a more canon (or even AU) world, there’s no question as to what’s being referenced.

    I’m not quite sure why people are so surprised this happened; honestly, I’d guess it happens more than most are aware, because it’d be so easy to do. What do diehard AH readers expect? You’ve taken characters and pulled them so far from the canon world that it’s difficult to discern what is and isn’t original now. Edward’s no longer a teen vamp, but a 50-year-old CEO millionaire trying to get into the pants of his young, impressionable assistant? No? He’s a grungy tattoo artist who also happens to be a struggling single dad that meets the girl of his dreams? You don’t fucking say. About the only (likely) thing tying these stories to the fandom is Robert Pattinson’s pretty face.

    AH readers/writers have taken a fantasy-story-based fandom and tried to force it to be an outlet for original, (mostly) Harlequin-romance plotting and characterization; more than a few times I’ve seen people openly write that they use the fandom to “test” their original story ideas. That only works so well and reliably, to be honest. There’s a reason there are sites and forums dedicated to original writing; there, readers know what they’re getting into, and writers get actual, sometimes brutally honest feedback that helps them improve. There are lots of good legal reasons to choose those sorts of outlets to test your original writing on, too, but I’ve already beaten that dead horse several times in other places.

    The whole “BNA” thing (eye roll) has become blown out of proportion partially because a lot of fic readers (and writers) have seemingly convinced themselves that much of the “top” AH is just so original that they aren’t reading twific, but the next bestselling novel or something near to it. I won’t even touch on those delusions of grandeur, but I will say that it’s this kind of thinking that warps the fandom and leads to all these confusing and somewhat infuriating problems.

    I don’t read AH (though I skim on occasion to know what the hell people are on about). I’ve no philosophical issue against its existence, no matter how strange I find it; it’s more a matter of wanting to clearly separate original writing from twific in my head. If I want a completely original story, I buy or borrow a book or go to an original fiction site where Stephenie Meyer, the name Edward Cullen and Robert Pattinson likely never came to the author’s mind. When I read twific, I read canon and AU stories, and there’s absolutely no question about what’s at the root of those fics–SM’s story–even if the vampires are significantly different to how she wrote them; they’re obviously connected; to “publish” one of these stories, you’d have to spend hours upon hours of reworking it, not merely run a quick find and replace on the names. If more in the fandom had this sort of clear separation in their reading and writing habits, they likely would have read Sutcliffe’s novel, instead of “krismom’s” barely-altered mess.

    I think the majority of this will blow over after the BD movies are over; many will move on, because a surprising number of people here don’t even like the source material. (Many say they liked the love story, not the fantasy, but, uh, you can’t really have one without the other in the source material. You just can’t. It starts with vamps and ends with them, and that’s the way of it.) I doubt I’ll be in the fandom by then myself, but I think a lot of women are here now to essentially ogle Robert Pattinson and try to bend him into their little fantasy worlds. Not knocking it–he is incredibly handsome–but seriously…this fandom is so far removed from its source material that it’s no surprise that this sort of stuff comes up at the AH end of twific. Expect it and all the subsequent drama to happen.

    Brutal, over-simplified? Maybe. But so far I’ve not gotten attached to any fic or author who’s pulled this sort of careless bullshit.

    • Alby Mangroves February 12, 2011 at 11:44 pm

      A very well rounded argument. I take an aside to this, however: “AH readers/writers have taken a fantasy-story-based fandom and tried to force it to be an outlet for original, (mostly) Harlequin-romance plotting and characterization; more than a few times I’ve seen people openly write that they use the fandom to “test” their original story ideas. ”
      As a writer of AH storylines, all I want to achieve is a readable story, featuring my favorite characters and the parts of them that I like best, and share it with like-minded people who want something other than a self-flegellating Edward and a clumsy Bella. Frankly, to have you say that we’ve all got ourselves to blame for this is ridiculous. Yes, I was shocked to find out this has happened again. I really couldn’t believe someone was quite this brazen. Perhaps the real payout for her is the adrenalin of knowing that she’s getting away with it, whatever. Her actions, and those of people like her, are not the product of the fandom straying from source material, they are the product of her own questionable ethics and fucked-up reasoning. Lets put the blame where it belongs, shall we?
      Careless is hardly how I would describe this. In fact, she was careful, circumspect, and willfully false to the whole fandom, not just her duped Betas and friends.

      • solareclipses February 14, 2011 at 12:46 am

        Oh, dear. I had an awesome, well-thought-out reply…and Chrome fucking ate it in a crash. (MUCH WEEPING.) So, this second try might not be as good…

        At any rate, I never meant to lay blame on AH readers/writers for another user’s plagiarism. If it seems like I was suggesting that, I poorly communicated my argument. My argument is simply that the further a fandom strays from its source material, the more easily these types slip through the cracks. The reason I think that’s true is that if this were just canon or AU, the Krismom-types would have to work harder to bury the plagiarism. (And plagiarists are typically lazy.) That does happen in fandoms, but because it requires much more effort on the part of the plagiarist, it’s less likely to happen.

        Given that AH twific allows literally anything and everything (to an extreme!), it’s far too easy for one who wants to pull this sort of stunt to just grab a book–any book of any genre with any set of character personality types–and copy it, verbatim. That’s exactly what happened here. The chance that someone who read that twific would have also read that book out of the billions out there was pretty damn slim (thus why it took so long for her to be discovered). The person behind this prank, or whatever one wishes to call it, undoubtedly knew that. Especially what with how 99% of this fandom has given up reading real books since AH twific, lmfao. (I continue to vacillate between laughing and crying at the number of people in this fandom who’ve bought an e-reader for twific. Facepalms for everyone!)

        As for calling her “careless,” I was referring to her attitude, not her technique. I would bet money she’s your average internet troll who gets off on being a trickster. Or she’s plain crazy–always a possibility. She was careless, in terms of not caring how her actions affected people in the fandom; how they might negatively affect SM or Sutcliffe.

        On a side note–and this is more a personal opinion, I suppose–I’d argue you aren’t “featuring your favorite characters” when writing Twilight as all-human. Making Edward Cullen a man, rather than a vampire, is like making Buck from “Call of the Wild” a human. Sure, you may be able to keep bits and pieces and tiny references, but you lose a lot of things in the translation, a lot more than if you merely changed personality traits or events in timelines; you lose the essence of “him” as a character, really. I’d liken it to the original stories of Robin Hood vs. Disney’s take of Robin Hood with a fox (and, uh, Disney’s Robin Hood kept a lot more of the source story intact than AH twific does with Twilight).

        Again, I don’t have any beef with its existence (other than, perhaps, I’ve grown increasingly tired of summaries no longer even bothering to use the “AH” acronym, since it’s just assumed), but yeah…I think it leads to a great deal of confusion in the fandom about what’s original vs. what’s not. It even leads to confusion about what’s canon, which just blows my mind, to be honest. I’ve seen an AH story win a “canon” award, and I’ve seen Edward and Jasper slash listed as “canon.” I don’t even… There are a few people in the fandom who never read all of the books. That’s how unrelated these stories are.


        P.S. – For my amusement, I checked Good Reads to see what Sutcliffe’s Whatever Makes You Happy is rated. It’s gotten a 3.08, which is actually very low. Twilight has a 3.79 (fairly average). I wouldn’t read the former, and the latter isn’t a great example of speculative fiction, but I found this funny, nonetheless. I’m not sure what it actually says, exactly, but it still made me laugh.

        • Alby Mangroves February 14, 2011 at 3:41 am

          I’ve actually seen that some readers of Krismom’s ‘fanfic’ have subsequently bought one of the books she plagiarised. So, happily, some are still apparently reading real books 😉
          I must admit that I haven’t seen the omission of AH from fic summaries yet, nor have I seen AH stories classed as canon, and I do get to see a few stories (through my own reading habits and also as a Guest Reviews coordinator on a Twilight fanfiction website). In any case, what you said makes sense. Pretty much anything goes in the AH genre, and it’s so huge that it would be impossible to keep track of it all. Perhaps it was my tiredness speaking when I interpreted your original comment so directly, but I understand what you were/are saying and agree for the most part.

          • twankharder February 14, 2011 at 4:09 am

            Whenever we see some edgy type say “LOL it’s been so long since I read anything but fic LOL” some little part of us dies inside.

            • Alby Mangroves February 14, 2011 at 4:23 am

              Haha! Can anyone say Hunger Games or Mortal Instruments?

              It’s been a long time since I’ve indulged in a paperback bodice-ripper, but I love my fix of Edvard the Viking none the less. It’s kind of amusing that in RL, I choose historical fact books rather than anything that resembles young adult novels or what I would read in or write for the Twilight fandom. Though I have been thinking of crossing Bella with Eleanor of Acquitaine… j/k

            • Is that cheese? February 14, 2011 at 1:21 pm

              If this were true, I would be too embarrassed to admit it. It also seems like the only books that people read, if they read at all, are Outlander series, Hunger Games, Mortal Instruments, and the god-awful Millennium Trilogy.

          • Tact Guy February 14, 2011 at 4:10 am

            re: the omission of AH from summaries

            I you’re happy to read AH or AU or canon or whatever, you probably wouldn’t notice. But for someone who chooses to only read canon or AU, the lack of AH in the summary is very obvious. I notice it a lot. Even — all human fics labelled simply as AU. I’ll click, expecting vamp, and get human.

            It’s very frustrating.

            • Alby Mangroves February 14, 2011 at 4:27 am

              I can imagine. At least as frustrating as a lack of classification for BDSM. It would make avoiding Domward or Subward so much fucking easier… you go in expecting whatever and the next thing you know the handcuffs and ballgags come out. Over it.

              • Tact Guy February 14, 2011 at 4:47 am

                Oh, god, yes, this. So over the amount of BDSM fics out there. Though I can’t recall an instance when I’ve clicked and gotten surprise BDSM, so I guess they are just more common in AH 😉

    • Tact Guy February 13, 2011 at 9:36 am

      I mostly agree with solareclipses. I don’t really get AH. I’ve read & written it before, but it got old fast. It’s a funny argument, though (not yours, solareclipses, yours makes perfect sense). AH diehards, the ones who don’t read canon or AU, and don’t write it, in general (yes, this has been my experience) get very sensitive and very defensive over their reasons. I can’t help thinking there’s something to that, but I haven’t quite figured it out yet.

      Oh, yeah, the issue at hand 😉 Plagiarise a published book? What a dick. I’m obviously pretty fandomly clueless, was Krismom one of those BNA’s with screeds of fawning fangirls? Trying to keep them, was she? I can’t fathom it. I just can’t. The reason I write is because I have a story in my head that is screaming to come out. I wouldn’t be writing at all if I didn’t. There would be no point. I just can’t understand why anyone would try to claim someone else’s story as their own. How can you possibly enjoy the reviews and feedback and readership when it hasn’t come from your own hard work?

      What a dick.

      Nice to see the twank reins have been taken up again, by the way. I missed the old one.

      • Anonymouse February 13, 2011 at 2:56 pm

        Sad thing is, those of use that like to read/write AU stories are getting shut out. Most communities mainly cater to AH readers and I’ve actually seen it happen, several times, where someone asks for recs for AU stories and get told to read AH ones instead.

      • Alby Mangroves February 13, 2011 at 6:11 pm

        A funny argument? When you do figure it out, please deign to let the rest of us AU diehards know, even those ones like me, who love to read, and have written, canon and AU.

        • tact guy February 13, 2011 at 8:50 pm

          Obviously you’re not a diehard then, are you?

          That is the kind of oversensitivity I see though. The assumption that you (gnomic) are being insulted or judged when you’re not.

          • Alby Mangroves February 14, 2011 at 2:28 am

            I simply thought it was tarring a lot of variants with the same brush. Simply put, I don’t believe Krismom is a product of a straying fandom. I agree with solareclipses subsequent comment in saying that Krismom is either a troll or an attention-seeker, and I wanted to put the blame on her shoulders and defend my right to be upset about what she had done.

    • twankharder February 13, 2011 at 9:16 pm

      We’ve seen some canon/AU writers with similar delusions of grandeur, in a couple cases exacerbated by the fact that they consider AH to be beneath them. We’re currently side-eyeing one author who says she’s planning to submit an AU story for publication; we’re confused about the dynamics and it may come to nothing. There’s also a twank alert we’re researching in which a canon story may have had parts copied from a book.

      If it’s more likely to happen with AH, that’s probably due to numbers. It’s like the author of the Cassie Claire writeup said, with that many fans, someone was bound to notice her plagiarism eventually. And with as many AH writers as there are, there’s bound to be wank.

      It’s also possible that those who stick close to the source material are more fiercely protective of it? It’s like what they were saying about how we treat plagiarism of someone’s fic more harshly than of someone’s book. That could be one explanation for why it seems like the AHers seem to have looser standards. They’ve strayed far enough from SM’s universe that they lost their geek glasses or something and forget why we’re here in the first place.

  4. JaspersDestiny February 12, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Plagiarism is plagiarism. Lots of people have done/are doing it/will do it in the future. It’s unacceptable at ANY time. In academia, you’re either expelled or given a big fat F. The fandom has most certainly handed KrisMom a big fat F. Whether she’s been expelled is another matter. But truth be told, it WILL affect her readership if she returns and her friendships with some people, but the biggest demon she will EVER have to face is herself. That will be her biggest punishment.

    And, as always, life will move on – for both KrisMom and the rest of the fandom.

  5. bippityboppitybitch February 12, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    Hmm. Well I don’t know why were all surprised, I mean SM copied half of her plots from other books.

    • Tact Guy February 13, 2011 at 9:44 am

      Hardly a decent argument, really. There are actually countless versions of P&P, Romeo and Juliet, etc etc.

      Now, if SM had simply changed ‘Elizabeth’ to ‘Bella’ etc, you might have a point. But she didn’t. And I’m fairly certain Mr. Darcy wasn’t a sparkly vampire.

      When people say stuff like this it makes me think they don’t like Twilight. And it makes me wonder why they are even here at all. That goes back to solareclipses theory that most of us are just here to cougar over RPattz.

      Just saying.

      • bippityboppitybitch February 13, 2011 at 4:11 pm

        well alright.

      • bippityboppitybitch February 13, 2011 at 4:14 pm

        Oh, and I’m here to lust over Kellan Lutz. Get it right.

      • Alby Mangroves February 13, 2011 at 6:14 pm

        I completely agree. If it’s all such a load of badly-written tripe, why be here? I don’t think RPatz is everyone’s Edward though. I think this came up as a topic on Edwardville, and I was surprised to see how many people had a different version of the character they were writing.

  6. Have to say February 15, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    This thread is probably over, but I just have to say:

    When I look at the first comparison chart, what strikes me is the awfulness of the one original sentence:

    “He’d spoken to his brother Emmett a few days ago and he’d mentioned having had dinner with his other brother Jasper- so it wasn’t any of them.”

    “He’d spoken to his brother Emmett a few days ago” is okay.

    Then we get to “he’d mentioned having had dinner with his other brother Jasper.” Apparently the “he” of this clause is not the same as the “he” of the first clause. We have switched referents from Edward to Emmett without warning. Very clumsy. “his other brother” seems outright wrong. It should be “their brother” or “their youngest brother” or some such. If “his” means Edward’s, we’ve switched referents AGAIN. If “his” means Emmett’s, it doesn’t work for Edward to think of Jasper as Emmett’s brother.

    Finally, “so it wasn’t any of them.” Two people have been mentioned so the sentence should read “either of them.”

    On a mechanical level, these sentences are ungraceful. On a story level, they don’t even make sense. Speaking to someone a few days ago does not actually rule out that person having a crisis now, nor does someone having gone out to dinner a few days before that.

    Krismom is undoubtably a plagiarist. Judging from this sample, she’s also a pretty bad writer.

    • Alby Mangroves February 15, 2011 at 8:53 pm

      Though reading this sentence in the fic didn’t tip me off, what I found strange was the connotation that though a few days had passed since he’d spoken to his brothers, nothing could have happened to either of them since that time. I remember thinking that a good Beta would have picked up that time slip.

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